Empty Promises

No Small Coincidence

The LDS church makes a couple of big promises, they are pretty awesome too. One is the idea of eternal marriage, and the other is the idea is you will become a God. I think it is no small coincidence that the first one is super appealing to women and the second is super appealing to men. What girl do you know that doesn’t swoon at the idea of eternal love and companionship? What man doesn’t thrill at the idea of being all powerful and capable?

The theology ties both of these concepts together using beautiful buildings constructed for that very purpose, you can’t miss the elaborate temples this faith builds. They claim to be the only church that can keep a family together forever once you die. The only one. I used to think they were the only church that believed in family ties after death, that is until I started actually asking people of other faiths what they believe and looking at their doctrines. Turns out lots of religions believe in continued family ties post death.

So that means the Mormon church banks its promise of eternal families and Godhood on another idea, they are the only authorized church of God to seal you together forever. But is this a real promise?

Nigerian Emails

I get some pretty awesome promises via email all the time. Typically from some Nigeria prince that needs my help. But do I believe Nigerian emails just because it is a really cool promise? I don’t and most like you don’t either. Maybe it deserves some investigation into the claims of authority that the church makes1 then doesn’t it?

Would you just trust that Nigerian email and send in 200$ a month for them to send you millions? Or would you check things out? If you aren’t one to check things out you can stop reading now and watch Hanks video. It just might help you see the reason to continue reading.

Ok so you are still with me! Whew! That means you must agree at least in principle that checking the validity of these claims is super important right? I mean if these are just empty promises then we are this is a big waste of time, energy, even possible heart break.2

The veracity of this promise is simple to figure out and it boils down to what president Hinkley said:3
“Well, it’s either true or false. If it’s false, we’re engaged in a great fraud….”

And Apostle J. Ruben Clark said:4
“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.”

I list these quotes so you realize it is ok to question! You should be figuring out if this is an empty promise and it is also important to do so. But how do you know if something is legit? Should you always trust your feelings? Maybe maybe not. Love is something you feel and you should trust that right?

Have Your Feelings Ever Been Wrong?

Can you imagine a doctor that diagnosed you based on his feelings alone and ignored things like blood tests and examinations? Would you trust that doctor to treat you? I highly doubt it. Another question I think is important to ask yourself. Do you think God would force people to do something they didn’t want to do? Do you feel that is right? Consider this:

“…the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully.”5

This is what Mormon founder Joseph Smith said when people questioned his marrying young teens and other mens wives. He said that an angel was sent to threaten his life if he didn’t obey.  In total he said God made him marry well over 30 women, including 11 that were married to other men at the time and 10 that were teenagers (he was in his 30s).6

Does it make sense that God would force Joseph Smith to marry all these women? Does that ‘feel’ right? If it doesn’t and you are still a believing Mormon, why do you justify it? Why do you try not to think about it. Why do you call it lies and anti-Mormon stuff even when it it is right here on the churches website?

Now I suppose it is possible that God did force him at sword point, but it is also possible Joe was just a charming guy making up stories and getting followers the same way Muhammed did with Islam. Muhammed also married teen brides… and he said God told him to as well.7 Why would God force this polygamy to happen with an angel and a sword and let something like racist color-of-skin doctrine go unchallenged for over 100 years? Does that make sense at all? Should you not at least question the promises of the people that say all this forced marriage stuff was ok?

Two Really Big Promises

The doctrine of Eternal Marriage and Godhood is tied irrevocably in with polygamy at the beginning of the church. The entire section in D&C 132 on eternal marriage and exaltation was given in regards to polygamous marriages. It’s why all those early church leaders married so many women that to them it was like buying a cow. Either this is something God really wanted to happen or it is a guy like Warren Jeffs just making it up. There is no middle ground. The fact is simple, at the beginning of the church you couldn’t be a God in heaven with only one wife. It wasn’t in the programme, dropping the extra wife stuff was something that came later and only because the USA basically forced them not to because it was against the law. 8

Plural marriage was clearly tied to becoming a God. Maybe we should look at how it got started. Joe’s first poly wife was a 17 year old that lived in their house named Fanny Alger, she was a maid helping with house work and stuff.  Oliver Cowdry called it a nasty affair… so even the church leaders back then weren’t all on board with this… But for a minute assume Cowdry was wrong. We know that Joseph Smith married Fanny in 18339

This is an important date to remember because according to Joseph Smith he didn’t get the power from Elija to do eternal sealing polygamy marriages until 1836.

WAIT A SEC! Do you mean to tell me Joe was getting extra wives before God gave him the authority to? Yep, that is way I am saying. Even the new church essay on this is really carefully worded so as to not draw attention to this fact.

After the marriage to Fanny he started marrying lots of women, even though Emma his wife hated it and denied it even happened some times. God of course rebuked Emma (via Joseph of course) for not being willing to do so. It’s recorded in the scriptures we have today. From the church essay:

“In the summer of 1843, Joseph Smith dictated the revelation on marriage, a lengthy and complex text containing both glorious promises and stern warnings, some directed at Emma.” footnote 41;

Make sure you check out footnote 41! God’s ‘stern warning‘ is that he will destroy Emma if she doesn’t accept the polygamy! Really? God is saying ‘Emma you better let Joe have the maid and your neighbor and those two young sisters or I will destroy you!’ Really? Is that the context this is in? Yep it is. Maybe now you see why the church really didn’t want to talk about this stuff before and only did it once the internet pretty much forced their hand.

So God (according to Joseph Smith, remember all the words of God are coming from the guy getting the women) is threatening people for not swapping wives or condoning teen brides getting hitched to old dudes. Does this still sound like the divine loving father you have been taught to believe in? Would any loving father you know do this to their daughter? Does this feel right? Of course not, the problem though is if you are like I was. There were other things about the church that did feel right. So then what? How do you decide?

It Gets Worse

This problem with polygamy doesn’t just stop at the first wife though. For me personally the biggest issue is Helen Mar Kimball. She was 14 and didn’t want to marry Joe at all, here story is here.  The basics are Joseph went to Heber C. Kimball and asked for Helen Mar as his wife (after Heber didn’t want to give Joe is own wife). If he gave Helen to Joseph, Joe promised God would give Heber mansions in heaven for the exchange.

What do you call a person that trades a girl for riches? A pimp? So what gives? Is God really calling the shots on this? Or is it more likely that the guy who claimed to be telling us God’s words is really just a nut case like Warren Jeffs?

So if we look at just one aspect of the church and its claim to truth, for it to be true than God not only condoned this polygamy, he sent a an angel with a sword to force it to happen. He traded the innocence of a 14 year old girl for the salvation of her family. I don’t know about you but these things feel terribly wrong to me and it doesn’t make sense a loving God would command it. It makes more sense that the guy was a charming pedophile like Warren Jeffs. Which if that is the case, then he was lying and by logical extension means the church does not have the power to seal eternal marriages and grant Godhood.

Empty Promises Hurt

Discovering this stuff myself was really difficult and for a long time I couldn’t even believe it happened. I had a burning testimony of the church, reading the Book of Mormon made me feel good. Because of that I could hardly believe these revelations on polygamy were real. But eventually I realized the simplest explanation is it was made up. 10 Then I had a choice, either reject or deal with this possibility. I think in the end it did come down to feelings, when you read the Book of Mormon it makes you feel good. But when you read about 14 year old girls being forced to marry 37 year old men it makes you feel sick.

But which feeling are you going to trust? I realized that when I read Harry Potter or Hunger Games those stories make me feel good. I realized just making me feel good doesn’t prove a story is true. It just means there are morals in there that I agree with. Forcing a 14 year old girl into a marriage she doesn’t want however is very morally wrong. This I did not agree with and my feelings confirmed that.

Consider my simple logic, if the Book of Mormon isn’t historically accurate, then the whole deal, the church, temples, everything is as Hinkely said a great fraud. If it is a great fraud that explains why Joseph Smith acted like Warren Jeffs and it makes me feel sick. That makes this next question really important. Can a story be fiction and make you feel good? Yes! I am sure of that, just watch The Fault In Our Stars as an example. That movie made me cry with emotion. Does that make it real or just a great story? On the other hand, I personally can’t believe in a loving heavenly father that would force his 14 year old daughter into marriage with a 37 year old man especially when she didn’t want it. That is not the definition of loving to me. Not even close. Heber C. Kimball might have believed and been willing to trade his little girl for a promise of eternal life. But I don’t buy it.

To me it sounds like a million dollar Nigerian email, it is an empty promise.11

Whether you buy what they are selling or not is up to you. It’s not my choice, it’s yours. If you have any reason to doubt though I implore you to give heed to what Helen confided to a friend after all this went down.

Helen Mar Kimball

“I would never have been sealed to Joseph had I known it was anything more than ceremony. I was young, and they deceived me, by saying the salvation of our whole family depended on it.”
– Helen Mar Kimball, Mormon Polygamy: A History by Richard S. Van Wagoner





  1. This is implicit in the testimonies you hear on Sunday when people say I know the church is true. They mean the one true authorized by God religion.
  2. I have met so many women since my disaffection that turned away a good man they loved deeply to chase this promise of an eternal marriage. They walked away from the person they loved for the promise of priesthood and marriage in that pretty castle/temple that is repeatedly sold to them as the best possible way to marry in this life. In many cases they didn’t pick the guy their heart told them to. They picked the guy the church told them to. In the end the regret they have felt and expressed to me is heart wrenching. Nothing hurts as bad as discovering you have been deceived. Especially when you gave up something wonderful for the deception.
  3. http://www.pbs.org/mormons/interviews/hinckley.html.
  4. https://progressiveexmormon.wordpress.com/non-lds-quotations/
  5.  https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng
  6. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org
  7. Joseph claimed he would be a ‘Muhammed’ to people as well. “The Prophet inculcates the notion, and it is believed by every true Mormon, that Smith’s prophecies are superior to the laws of the land. I have heard the Prophet say that he would yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; and if he was not let alone, he would be a second Mohammed to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky mountains to the Atlantic ocean; that like Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was, ‘the Alcoran or the Sword.’ So should it be eventually with us, ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword.’ These last statements were made during the last summer. The number of armed men at Adam-ondi-Ahman was between three and four hundred” (History of the Church 3:167)
  8. Ironically it is this same declaration the church accepts as Gods truth that also tells us the prophet will never lead the church astray. But for 100 years after that they taught doctrine of black people being cursed of God which is now some sort of giant mistake on their part… so did they lead us astray or not?
  9. Yeah I realize that some historians (typically on the church payroll) argue that this wedding happened as late as 1835. But hey if you can say a 14 year old girl was ‘almost 15’ to make your point I’m allowed some latitude here right? Either way it doesn’t change my point.
  10.  You can see the evidence of it everywhere once you start looking. I found clear evidence that Joe Smith lied to followers when he needed to, that he destroyed a printing press for telling the truth about him. That he lied about his ability to translate. You can even find evidence that the BoM is just fiction. The facts are everywhere if you look.
  11. Additional study

    Every person in the church should read all of the Essays that have been released. Personally I think they should read the critiques on them as well. Far to much is carefully worded leaving out crucial information needed to make such an important decision in my opinion.

    Here are links to the official ones http://mormonessays.com.

    Here you can find information that isn’t completely revealed in the essay on polygamy.


    The CES letter summarizes all of the issues that didn’t make sense that I found with the churches claims, it has lots of links to the source information.


    Lots of references here to what prophets have said over the years that leaders today never talk about, things that you really should know are at the foundation of your belief system.


4 Things Post Mormons Want You To know

So I recently read this post about us people that try to point out issues with the LDS church that have affected our lives. It lists 4 apparently secret things that we apostates don’t want you to know. I felt like I needed to comment on them.

The Big list fallacy
Umm this is only a fallacy if the items on the list are untrue. Think about it, assume you went to buy a car and the carfax report had a huge list of various accidents the car had been in. Would you ignore it just because the list was long? The things on the list are relevant because they speak to the character and honesty of those whom you trust.

This is kind of ironic that this is the second item of the 4 things. I mean the first item was this idea that getting too specific with a long list of issues means you should ignore it. So if you get general about the issues of concern, such as leaders deceiving followers… You should toss that out too? Hmm seems like there is no legit way to actually criticize the faith. This is interesting since the LDS faith in its own scriptures gets to call all the other faiths an abomination. Is this really a fair playing field?

This one struck me as odd. Of course many people are happy being LDS. I know hundreds of them. Including myself. I was very happy and had an overall positive experience in the church. I didn’t leave because wanted to. I felt I must to remain honest with myself. I realized the church was not true, simple as that. I’d never been a member just because it was a nice club to belong to. So staying and pretending to believe because I liked the way of life it represented seemed wrong to me.

This is saying that those of us who see people stay in the church think they are not being honest with themselves. There is some truth to that for sure. But I assure you we aren’t out to flatter anyone out of the church. It is those that stay that must justify 14 year old girls coerced into marriage with a 37 year old man. It is those that stay that must justify murdering drunk people by cutting off their heads as an act of God. If you think we are flattering you by pointing out the requirements of integrity it takes to call this out as bad stuff. You are very wrong.

4 things we want you to know
Now here are 4 reasons we ‘anti’s’ as you call us actually speak out and bring these things up. I think I speak for many of us, but if not feel free to comment below.

We love you
Most of us have family and friends in the church. From our perspective you have been misled and deceived. Imagine if your sister was getting married and you knew for a fact the guy was cheating on her. Even if she was deliriously happy with him would you not say anything? Would you let the whole deal go down because you felt she might never even discover his philandering? Or would you speak up and say something to her? Many of us feel the need to speak up and point out the ways you have been misled. 1

We hope to teach you
Many of us have discovered underlying reasons why it is possible for people to be mislead in massive ways and even for it to be completely unintentional due to underpinnings of human psychology. We hope to give you new information so that you have an opportunity to make a more informed decision. We want you to know there are alternate explanations we think you should take into account. We want you to know that knowledge is not a sin.

There is life after Mormonism
This was particularly scary for me. In hind site I have a whole new perspective for people that converted to the LDS faith while on my mission. Realizing you might not have all that answers and seeking new ones is often terrifying. Personally I have discovered even atheism has a soul. Life without religion is in many ways more sweet, fulfilling and eloquently special than it ever was in the faith. Is it scary to take those steps forging your own opinions rather than regurgitating what you have always been taught? Very much so. To me however it has been worth it despite the fact that it made me an outcast in my own family and among my peers. Think about that. The fruit of authenticity is worth the trial of deep loss. We aren’t trying to bring you down. We are trying to lift you up and show you clarity. Unfortunately it might mean facing some uncomfortable facts that for a time can cause pain. But like a physician cleaning a wound we know that is how you heal.

The divine is still in you even if the religion is not
There is one thing you realize when you question what you always relied on. The strength to overcome, the person you always counted on to see you through wasn’t some magical invisible being. It wasn’t even leaders that promised to never mislead you and when they did wouldn’t even apologize for it. We hope you will discover as we did, the strength you relied on is you. It always was. All the good things the church claimed it provided came from people like you. It always has. You made the church awesome because you were in it. If you choose to grow beyond it. Guess what! You will bring that awesomeness with you.


Do you have a friend that has questioned her faith? Have you asked her why? Are you scared to? I hope not. We aren’t out to eat babies or destroy lives. Just to let you know there are other sides to the story. Generally speaking I think any post mormon you talk to will encourage you to seek out information both supportive and critical to what you have been taught. Contrast that to the idea that you must be afraid of anything that might upset your beliefs. Does truth really need to fear doubt? I hope not.

“It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry.”
– Thomas Paine


  1. and there are a whole bunch of them so they make for a pretty long list 🙂

Is Belief Really a Choice?

Do you consciously choose your beliefs?

This is a question I’ve been pondering of late. As one who has experienced a dramatic change in beliefs it is a topic of interest no doubt. It came to mind recently because of a conversation I was having with a good friend that still believes the church is true. 1 He made the comment that he thought I’d made a conscious choice to not believe in the church anymore.

It isn’t the first time my apostasy has been framed that way. As a choice to not believe. In discussion that declaration is often followed with the idea that the believer has chosen to believe. This is a concept that from personal experience that I think is simply false. I’d like to explain why.

I think the reality is we form our beliefs involuntarily. I can not think of a single instance where I made a choice to just stop believing during my crisis of faith. In fact it was as if my precious beliefs were torn out of my soul leaving me for a time empty inside. The last thing I wanted was to lose my religion, why would I actively choose to do so?

This I realize is counter to what you are taught in the religion. Often times you hear things like ‘choose this day whom ye will serve’ they frame things up in the idea that you choose to take a leap of faith after which belief follows. If you choose the religion you get all the blessings from it. And to be sure, they are some pretty awesome promises. Especially the LDS church, how many other religions tell you you get to be God if you follow their faith?

But aren’t the promises besides the point? Fundamentally don’t you choose a religion based on whether it is true or not? When you go car shopping do you buy the one that the salesman promises is made of solid gold? Do you buy ocean front property in Arizona because you really really want a beach house?

Want more proof you don’t consciously choose to believe what you profess to believe in? Take your deeply held belief and choose the opposite right now. Don’t worry you can choose back again in a second. Now while you are choosing the opposite belief, test it. Test whether or not you really did make a choice. Do something only a nonbeliever can do. Suppose for example you chose to not believe in God. Now while you are a non believer ask God to strike you dumb for your lack of belief. Can you do it? I’m betting dollars to donuts you can’t. I haven’t met a believer yet that can.2

Fact is you just believe in your religion, you don’t choose it like you choose what car you are going to buy. There is no conscious choice. So belief is involuntary. Why is it the bigger question. Think about why you as a believer can’t rise to my challenge. Isn’t it as if you were superstitious and don’t want to temp fate? I think the reason boils down to a single emotion.

Fear. You fear the unknown. You fear death. You fear loss. You fear the idea that you alone are responsible for the mistakes you have made that you can never correct. This fear drives your belief and it is why you can’t just give it up on a whim. You can’t choose to stop believing anymore than you can choose to stop the beat of your heart. Why? Because of fear. Is it any wonder the church teaches you to “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling” 

As long as you are afraid you will have no choice but to believe. For belief is rooted in fear and it is that fear which religion preys on.

abusive god

You can’t choose your beliefs but you can choose to have the courage to face your fears. You can investigate your doubts rather than stuff them away on a shelf and tell yourself you are too dumb to understand these things. You can rise up and stand for your own principles.You can be your own person. It is possible to not be afraid, losing faith doesn’t mean have to mean losing hope. The truth of the matter is belief isn’t a choice, but fear is.

  1. LDS church in this case, I feel the need to specify for two reasons, one this blog is getting more and more traffic in general from people of all faiths and none at all. Two because for the most part I have discovered all believers think their particular belief is the ‘true’ one.
  2. If you could actually choose this it would be simple for you to make such a declaration. But it isn’t. Think about that. What does that mean? Do you really have free agency in this situation or are you trapped by fear?